It's important to note this isn't explained AT ALL in the movie, but the prevailing theory for Empire Strikes Back is that time is distorted on Dagobah because of all the Force energy on the planet.
As far as Beauty and the Beast is concerned, I was always more bothered by the fact that the Beast would've been roughly 11 years old when he was cursed 😳
Yo! Just thought I would chime in here. The original fairytale is a lot about loyalty. These servants were loyal to an unjust ruler. It makes them culpable as well. Even if they were just “following orders” that is what the fairytale is trying to communicate.
“11 years old” - yes. Once “love & be loved by his 21st birthday” sinks in the whole timeline becomes really strange
When Belle arrives at the castle it feels timeless. But the backstory suggests that it all went down less than a decade ago. A castle a short walk from the village goes dark and no-one remembers anything about it merely 5 years later?
syuzhet - I love finally having a word to describe something I've noticed but never had a word for. Thanks!
Excellent post, and a good reminder that stories aren't real - Meaning, we aren't trying to re-create reality with our characters, setting, or timeline, but are rather creating a story. This means the setting can and should be a facade, the characters one-dimensional (If need be), and the timeline totally bogus.
Movies in particular have a way of tricking us, because they so closely resemble what we see every day.
When I taught screenwriting, in my first class, I would show my students video of a pig and ask them what it was. They'd of course say "a pig." Then I'd show a still photo, and ask again. Then a drawing, then the word PIG. It was fun to watch them slowly realize what I was getting at--none of it is real.
This article is bringing back nightmares of working quantum mechanics problems. If Sally is traveling 1/4 the speed of light and Sam is traveling 7/8 the speed of light how long will the pizza take to cook in the oven… 🙃
The Falcon's hyperdrive is out, so they are travelling *slower* than light. They travel from Hoth to Anoat, which are implied to be different systems, so it probably did take months, if not years, although assuming time dilation it would have felt like less time on the Falcon.
I think the question of whether these temporal inconsistencies are flaws has less to do with whether most audience members notice them and more to do with how easy they are to avoid. In both cases, a scene explaining what Han and Leia/Belle's father are up to during the main character's sojourn could, done well, strengthen the impression of time passing. This might be good or bad, but I've gotta say– if you've got a portion of the story where a bunch of time passes, and demonstrating that passage of time would fuck up the movie, maybe you need to rethink your script a little.
Making a good piece of art isn't just about avoiding problems, it's about accentuating strengths, and I think that internal consistency provides advantages that are worth pursuing where there aren't relevant downsides.
In “Empire Strikes Back,” the Falcon ISN’T traveling at the speed of light. In fact, it’s a major plot point that the hyperdrive is broken and the ship is effectively crippled. Given how vast space is, Han, Chewie, Leia, and 3P0 could have taken weeks, if not months, to get to Bespin.
Luke was in Dagobah for a couple of months and it’s made clear the Falcon has to travel at sub light speed, meaning anywhere they go will have to take time. That’s why they were looking for somewhere close and Han comments that “I think we can make it.”
This was great, thanks! I've never thought about this before when it comes to Empire Strikes Back, but even as a child, I thought it was strange how time moved in Beauty and the Beast.
I have never seen Star Wars. nor understand the multitude of masochists who take philosophic lessons from cliche plots that can be set in any time from 1800-to now. And, if I see another Disney movie with a "cute side kick" to merchandise along with the latest "princess", I'll get leprosy I'm sure. But your discussion of time, real and perceived, is interesting.
The most hilarious war film I've ever seen is 1917 (and I'm a war history buff) when the MC is sent on an emergency mission to prevent a battle, and stops to listen to a spontaneous concert by singing soldiers ...so much for haste, among other dalliances. Then, upon reaching the trenches and delivering the message NOT in time, runs in front of the artillery and shooting soldiers of both sides, to....sit under a tree to eat and reflect as the battle rages on. Yet, it was advertised as the greatest WW I war movie ever made because .... ? it was filmed in one continuous take. (Which was not accurate.)
You're right, the reasonableness of suspension of disbelief regarding timelines is subjective, but Hollywood displays it's insanity when it makes films that not only distort time, but treats the audience as if it were brain dead.
The novelization of Empire - otherwise one of the very few times the movie is better than the book - does a slightly better managing of the timelines - Luke is only on Dagonah for about a month, maybe two - Han and Leia take almost that long (with he hyperdrive disabled) to get from the asteroid belt to Bespin. It still does not work out perfectly (though if there OS the time distortion mentioned above at play, that fixes the little inconsistency) but is a lot less glaring. As for Beauty and the Beast, I thought her father just flat out ran away, returned, and then went back and got the angry mob together to rescue her? Again the timeline does not match up well though
It's important to note this isn't explained AT ALL in the movie, but the prevailing theory for Empire Strikes Back is that time is distorted on Dagobah because of all the Force energy on the planet.
As far as Beauty and the Beast is concerned, I was always more bothered by the fact that the Beast would've been roughly 11 years old when he was cursed 😳
Figures the EU would have an explanation!
As for B&TB, you're right, totally messed up! And the servants are all cursed for a child's rude behavior, too?
Yo! Just thought I would chime in here. The original fairytale is a lot about loyalty. These servants were loyal to an unjust ruler. It makes them culpable as well. Even if they were just “following orders” that is what the fairytale is trying to communicate.
“11 years old” - yes. Once “love & be loved by his 21st birthday” sinks in the whole timeline becomes really strange
When Belle arrives at the castle it feels timeless. But the backstory suggests that it all went down less than a decade ago. A castle a short walk from the village goes dark and no-one remembers anything about it merely 5 years later?
syuzhet - I love finally having a word to describe something I've noticed but never had a word for. Thanks!
Excellent post, and a good reminder that stories aren't real - Meaning, we aren't trying to re-create reality with our characters, setting, or timeline, but are rather creating a story. This means the setting can and should be a facade, the characters one-dimensional (If need be), and the timeline totally bogus.
Movies in particular have a way of tricking us, because they so closely resemble what we see every day.
When I taught screenwriting, in my first class, I would show my students video of a pig and ask them what it was. They'd of course say "a pig." Then I'd show a still photo, and ask again. Then a drawing, then the word PIG. It was fun to watch them slowly realize what I was getting at--none of it is real.
This article is bringing back nightmares of working quantum mechanics problems. If Sally is traveling 1/4 the speed of light and Sam is traveling 7/8 the speed of light how long will the pizza take to cook in the oven… 🙃
The Falcon's hyperdrive is out, so they are travelling *slower* than light. They travel from Hoth to Anoat, which are implied to be different systems, so it probably did take months, if not years, although assuming time dilation it would have felt like less time on the Falcon.
I think the question of whether these temporal inconsistencies are flaws has less to do with whether most audience members notice them and more to do with how easy they are to avoid. In both cases, a scene explaining what Han and Leia/Belle's father are up to during the main character's sojourn could, done well, strengthen the impression of time passing. This might be good or bad, but I've gotta say– if you've got a portion of the story where a bunch of time passes, and demonstrating that passage of time would fuck up the movie, maybe you need to rethink your script a little.
Making a good piece of art isn't just about avoiding problems, it's about accentuating strengths, and I think that internal consistency provides advantages that are worth pursuing where there aren't relevant downsides.
In “Empire Strikes Back,” the Falcon ISN’T traveling at the speed of light. In fact, it’s a major plot point that the hyperdrive is broken and the ship is effectively crippled. Given how vast space is, Han, Chewie, Leia, and 3P0 could have taken weeks, if not months, to get to Bespin.
Luke was in Dagobah for a couple of months and it’s made clear the Falcon has to travel at sub light speed, meaning anywhere they go will have to take time. That’s why they were looking for somewhere close and Han comments that “I think we can make it.”
This was great, thanks! I've never thought about this before when it comes to Empire Strikes Back, but even as a child, I thought it was strange how time moved in Beauty and the Beast.
All very fun to think about.
I've had the same thought about Empire Strikes Back, but I treated it like a Rocky! Training Montage.
The novelization didn't help out any, as it just compounded the problem.
Rey proved Jedi can be trained very quickly. 😁😁😁
I have never seen Star Wars. nor understand the multitude of masochists who take philosophic lessons from cliche plots that can be set in any time from 1800-to now. And, if I see another Disney movie with a "cute side kick" to merchandise along with the latest "princess", I'll get leprosy I'm sure. But your discussion of time, real and perceived, is interesting.
The most hilarious war film I've ever seen is 1917 (and I'm a war history buff) when the MC is sent on an emergency mission to prevent a battle, and stops to listen to a spontaneous concert by singing soldiers ...so much for haste, among other dalliances. Then, upon reaching the trenches and delivering the message NOT in time, runs in front of the artillery and shooting soldiers of both sides, to....sit under a tree to eat and reflect as the battle rages on. Yet, it was advertised as the greatest WW I war movie ever made because .... ? it was filmed in one continuous take. (Which was not accurate.)
You're right, the reasonableness of suspension of disbelief regarding timelines is subjective, but Hollywood displays it's insanity when it makes films that not only distort time, but treats the audience as if it were brain dead.
I love this because it makes me feel better about my own timeline issues.
The novelization of Empire - otherwise one of the very few times the movie is better than the book - does a slightly better managing of the timelines - Luke is only on Dagonah for about a month, maybe two - Han and Leia take almost that long (with he hyperdrive disabled) to get from the asteroid belt to Bespin. It still does not work out perfectly (though if there OS the time distortion mentioned above at play, that fixes the little inconsistency) but is a lot less glaring. As for Beauty and the Beast, I thought her father just flat out ran away, returned, and then went back and got the angry mob together to rescue her? Again the timeline does not match up well though